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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 2:39 pm 
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Posts: 892
Split from another thread. You can skip most of the text except what's at the end, the other screenshots are to let you know the level of CSS I can do and style being used so far.

In a nutshell I can't figure out how to make an ugly screen look good. Don't know how productive this'll be but it's worth a shot

------------------------
Quote:
3. Aethetics: <Major streamline make-over proposal>

a) Place Game Phase Info. together in a simple graphical fashion
embedded in either Msg. board or just 'on top' of Moves Box.

b) Having an 'airy' look - the presentation is beautiful, but
it entails a lot of scrolling Up&Down. Thus, if you used less
<BR>'s, and expanded texts wider sideways, not downwards...

<< From: 14 lines

TITLE_of_PHP_Diplo_Players, Season 19xy, 'Phase'
* STATUS ALERT*
Scoring_Method
x hours/phase: Game pace
Pot: D.

Players:
SO&SO1 (100) as Swiss(|): 1 supply center, Last Log: Day, 15:15h.
SO&SO2...

--> TO : 11 lines

TITLE_of_PHP_Diplo_Players, Season 19xy, 'Phase',
n hrs/phase: Game pace, Scoring_Method, Pot: D.

Players:
SO&SO1 (100) as Swiss(|): 1 supply center, Last Log: Day, 15:15h.
SO&SO2...

Ive attached a couple of screenshots of the board header and new game panel, we seem to be on the same page
Attachment:
File comment: Board
Untitled picture1.png
Untitled picture1.png [ 130.95 KiB | Viewed 4008 times ]
Attachment:
File comment: Game listings
gamelistigns.png
gamelistigns.png [ 95.83 KiB | Viewed 4021 times ]


Quote:
c) The move-over cursor colours over the country names in
message dialogue box aught to be in Purple, Orange, Grey,
...or, at least different than 'Italian Green'.

It is a shame that our color scheme are the colors of France and Italy, but I dont think using random colors for highlights will look better

Quote:
d) Highlight the current_tab_box in which the player is typing in.
(Global, or which country am I writing in?)

Hmm, it is highlighted for me, not sure what to make of that

Quote:
e) The View Order History can be moved to a more convenient spot.

It's partof the new game panel

Quote:
f) Much less space between Game_Info, map and Moves_Box.

A bit of whitespace gets shaved off, but there's not much room to save

Quote:
g) Place the: Game_title, Game_Status, hours_next_phase, players & all...
FIRST on TOP of Page. (above map)(moves under map)

We do have an info-bar at the top now, but I dont think the full game panel should come above the more commonly used stuff like map, orders, chat

Quote:
4. Game Dynamics ... Most everything is super-duper.!.


aa) When a country has no more units, remove it 'tab' from Msg_Box,
and that player's access to game, close it&rank him.

Removing the tab is an interesting idea, but I feel some might not like that.
Players do now receive a notification when they've been defeated, with their winnings and new rank if appropriate, but I don't think barring them from returning is necessary

Quote:
a) When a game page loads, you show last or first message first?
If only one new, tag Sender as highlighting and open thread.

Que? Oh you mean if there's just one new message go straight to that tab. Yeah hadn't thought of that, though it'd get annoying if you're trying to send messages to another player and someone else keeps sending messages to you

Quote:
b) Could the uncompleted orders be retained when one switches
to either Msg. Board, or anything else?

Without some ajax-fu that won't be complete for a long while

Quote:
c) Better control over: /draw /pause, OUSTING, etc...

Those are going to be part of the game panel, working on that now in fact (except ousting?)

Quote:
d) Have the possibility of viewing new messages that
show up when on another game from within the same board
the player is still 'playing' on...

Messages from one board getting into another board? Not sure why you'd want that

Quote:
e) For Retreats & Disbands, automize if 'no choice'.

This is a known problem, but it'll take a while to improve the order interface before this can be done

Quote:
* Forum Page *

a) Create a few groups of interest in forum, a few could be:
( new games, live games, strategy, shoutbox, dev., ... )

The other day we got a petition against this I think :P it's a controversial idea. I know fig is for it, but I don't want to risk diluting forum activity

Quote:
b) Less Scrolling. (1.) - less space between threads.
(2.) :
<< From: 5 lines

(icon) + Title of thread
Sent from: PlayerNick(X) - Sent: Day, 11PM -
see inside for detail
There are currently <B>Y</B> replies to this thread.
Open thread

--> Into: 3 lines

(icon)+Title => opens thread.
Speaker: PlayerNick(x) - Sent: Day,23:45 - <B>Y</B> replies
... first line of post ...

A bit of space has been shaved off forum posts, I've attached a screenshot, but it's hard to make big savings with our format
Attachment:
File comment: Forum
Untitled picture.png
Untitled picture.png [ 81.53 KiB | Viewed 4007 times ]


Quote:
* New Game *

a) shorter than 1hr. for Live Games.

See the FAQ for my pov on this

Quote:
b) add options (some may have been metioned before)

Yup that's on the list, but a long way down

Quote:
c) Maybe less text, also squeeze the Co. stuff at bottom ;-)

d) Add Another Image...

I've attached a screen of the tweaked new game form, might help with that
Attachment:
File comment: New game
Untitled picturec.png
Untitled picturec.png [ 69.31 KiB | Viewed 4008 times ]


Quote:
* Settings *

a) as for other pages, shorten.

b) add options (some may have been metioned before)

Attached a screen of this also. I'm not sure about the green textbox color, but I think it's a bit clearer and more concise. There should be more consistent forms in the next version
Attachment:
File comment: Settings
Untitled picturea.png
Untitled picturea.png [ 66.96 KiB | Viewed 4007 times ]



You can nitpick some of that stuff but I'm pretty much happy with all of those screens (except for the missing voting panel). If you fancy yourself as an interface guy here's a problem you can chew on, currently pretty much 0.9's final todo:
Attachment:
File comment: Home page
Untitled picturev.png
Untitled picturev.png [ 173.35 KiB | Viewed 4058 times ]


It's gathering a selection of information from notices, the forum, PMs, stats, active games etc which I think could make a good user summary screen to monitor games and forum topics from, (which would also plug in easily to future RSS/email notification code).

The problem is it looks like garbage and I'm having trouble arranging it and choosing the right information to present. I'm not a big player myself so I'm not sure what info players most frequently need to be kept up on either
With CSS I need to know what I'm designing before I do it, and I'm not getting anywhere. It needs to be better than that data lumped into a few shaded tables, which is all I've got
At bare minimum it has to list user notices and PMs received, and links to the games being played, but ideally it'll have other relevant info too


For 10 points nitpick the other more-or-less finalized screens, for a million points sketch what you'd do for the new home page. 0.9 can't come out until this page is done and I want to get it over with :P


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 6:30 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 3:24 pm
Posts: 71
Can I get a quarter-million points for one of my replies showing up in the mock-up? :mrgreen:

Two problems I see over and over:

1. Players accidentally send a message to the wrong country. As you can imagine, this can be rather disastrous. (We won't talk about the time I outlined an elaborate strategy in the wrong game...)

2. Players either hit Update/Finalize without Sending the message, or vice-versa. Messages or orders are lost. (Actually I think I noticed the site handles one of these two combinations; can't remember for sure, I'll try to remember to check unless somebody else knows offhand.)


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 8:59 pm 
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Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2008 12:47 pm
Posts: 726
wouldn't be hard to add javascript to deal with the double-input scenario's.
I'll give a more detailed reply when I've had some time for this to sink in, but it looks good to me.
In my opinion the homepage could do well with the 'less is more' attitude.

People alerts go in the main column, definately. I would put each section of things in a folding javascript box or tabs (but I know we differ on that view!) so that it stays neat. Each folding box would have a heading, possibly a description, followed by list/table of the items. Each item would be in the standard phpDip grey, with :hover to the other shade of grey used, helping people know which they're looking at. Clicking opens up the relavant game etc.

I started writing a more in-depth answer to the problem, but decided I needed to step back and let it sink in a bit more first.


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:52 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:14 pm
Posts: 73
:D I really like your newer presentation :roll: kestasjk ;-) :mrgreen:

you are... getting there on the re-representation .!.

:geek: ""I can't figure out how to make an ugly screen look good.""

- I think It has(had) a certain 'prestence' ! :arrow:


_____


** responses **

___


the Time in 'metric'/Military...? 00:01h. ...
(AMPM is harder to see :ugeek: )

___

:oops: the new colour bar, right under main titles & status
could be done with the orange, pink, blue, ...
same as global & countries series, could be nice effect :lol: *shrugs*

--- Board et al.

!!! 'f) Much less space between Game_Info, map and Moves_Box.'

- ""A bit of whitespace gets shaved off, but there's not much room to save""


==> yes there is! ==> 0. ...space (don't even add an s) (as in, erase stuff!)

==> All those LINES between Boxes. If you really NEED TO KEEP IT -> smaller

==> (Hug)the three main boxes: Msg.+Map+Moves, then a space for game stats.

==> CHAT BOX: add spaces between player names 'air this up'.

==> MAP a little BIGGER, maybe show the tiny version at near bottom also ;-)

==> Place Right on top of map --> Game Name, Season. ;)

==> Place Right on top of Moves Box the words "Move Box" for newbs.

--
WHAT? (Purple, Orange, Grey) = "random"? nah, just good choices.

--

French & Italian colours change a little, lighter or darker,
... different from 'navigation' links.

--
--


' 4.d) Highlight the current_tab_box in which the player is typing in.
(Global, or which country am I writing in?) '

""Hmm, it is highlighted for me, not sure what to make of that""

--> Well, no. ex.: i've typed in a lengthy letter, seeing only my text,
I have to click in & scroll up to verify to what country I'm talking to.
The whole little box 'lights up' so target country becomes distinguishable.


Quote:
e) The View Order History can be moved to a more convenient spot.

""It's part of the new game panel""

-Oh, really? can't be moved?? I would Identify It with one word: "History".



Quote:
g) Place the: Game_title, Game_Status, hours_next_phase, players & all...
FIRST on TOP of Page. (above map)(moves under map)

We do have an info-bar at the top now, but I dont think the full game panel should come above the more commonly used stuff like map, orders, chat

==> You did it already ! THX.


!! 4.aa) When a country has no more units, remove it 'tab' from Msg_Box,
and that player's access to game, close it&rank him.
*IDEA DELETED*



Quote:
' 4.a) When a game page loads, you show last or first message first?
If only one new, tag Sender as highlighting and open thread. '

"" ??Que? Oh you mean if there's just one new message go straight to that tab.
Yeah hadn't thought of that, though it'd get annoying if you're trying to send
messages to another player and someone else keeps sending messages to you... ""

==> Receive newer msgs. in a variable, but don't show msgs. until player hits
send or clicks elsewhere.


Quote:
" 4.c) Better control over: /draw /pause, OUSTING, etc... "

'''''Those are going to be part of the game panel, working on that now in fact ...
(except ousting?)
(except ousting?)
(except ousting?)
(except ousting?)
(except ousting?)
(except ousting?)
'''''guess it ends up being a joke,
but it 'could' happen (cheaters?)
ie.: vote= all vs. one.


Quote:
' 4.e) For Retreats & Disbands, automize if 'no choice'.

""This is a known problem, but it'll take a while to improve
the order interface before this can be done


==> I see, you guys prob. know what to do...




* Settings *

green textbox color is great!

ask for input of email on same line as prompt

same for password, and most other input boxes, etc...

==> here a player can add a pic to profile, or something...



* Forum Page *

"a) Create a few groups of interest in forum, a few could be:
( new games, live games, strategy, shoutbox, dev., ... ) "

"" The other day we got a petition against this I think
it's a controversial idea. I know fig is for it, but
I don't want to risk diluting forum activity ""


==> again, less space between each msg. box.


! ... Hmm, a Twitter-like stream ? kinda makes a lot of sense ;)

Keep 'em busy! ... OR ... how about having both sometime ?)



___
___


+ Home Page +

-Haven't seen it before, munching now...


""... not sure what info players most frequently need to be kept up on""

Ah,... This is a whole question to itself !!!

Being a player, I'll say this it's a Game Of Diplomacy.

Being a Painter, I know how aethetics functionality are interlinked
as friendly yet formidable allies... heheh. My timing back into
the game, now as a PbW (web), from a real board a long time ago...
Have a fresher 'unbored' look on it maybe.

It has strategy & planification, much player interaction, you got to
keep an eye on what going on Now, what happened, and 'WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN',
with the forcasting one's next positions and even logging them in ahead
of time, maybe this may tend towards forgoing the 'sitting' options.).


* Home Page *

Nice. See it as "Where the MetaPLayer Sits".


On top, Maybe the newer colour bar design ?

- On top of Stats, add player image.

- rewrite as: "Position: x/y (51%)" (no spaces between nums (or change FONT))

- line up vertically the list of stats by the numbers

- The Hall of Fame: a 'mere' buttun to a seperate
LONGER page ... ( with everybody ??)

- thus, the player stats are a small box, maybe top left or Centered_wide ?


- I see two types of threads: games & forum.

games:

- In a -Stream of Activity Box- by priority: List of all current games, +
List of old, button to 'Joinable', etc... ( maybe REMOVING the Games
Tab altogether, that is thought of as std. phpDiplomacy page format. )


forum:

- Three stream boxes: Replies, My Posts, and New Posts(in forum). (in that order)



___
___


Q&A:

*** What are the PROCESS & Reprocess fns.? if it's what I think, Woopy! ***


________
:OTHERS:


:NPRZ :

""Two problems I see over and over:

1. Players accidentally send a message to the wrong country.
As you can imagine, this can be rather disastrous.
(We won't talk about the time I outlined an
elaborate strategy in the wrong game...)

==> That's my point 3.d) Highlight the current_tab_box
in which the player is typing in.
(Global, or WHAT country am I writing ALL THIS in?)

==> See above, ALSO bear in mind that the Chat Box has space
at the top on both sides left to fill with Functions or Status ...


2. Players either hit Update/Finalize without Sending the message,
or vice-versa. Messages or orders are lost. (Actually I think
I noticed the site handles one of these two combinations;
can't remember for sure, I'll try to remember to check
unless somebody else knows offhand.)""

==> Handle this by creating variables holding moves
per unit in a list. (Did I hear LISP or something?:)
AND at each time each unit move is 'clicked-in'. (my point 4.b))





; figlesquidge :
""In my opinion the homepage could do well with the 'less is more' attitude.""

---> YES!! but, I'd go against pop-ups (except the map).



*
---> Hope this resolves issues & will make 'our' page so much snazzier!
*


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2009 11:57 pm 
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Posts: 726
Those multi-colour bars - are you going to blend them? It looks really strange to me at the moment, but if the merges are softened it would look really good.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:14 pm
Posts: 73
Quote:
Those multi-colour bars - are you going to blend them?
It looks really strange to me at the moment, but if the merges are softened it would look really good.


must take time, just redo with the 8 colors in a row for now.

or KEEP IT for now, or redo it Now.

8-)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 12:18 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:14 pm
Posts: 73
72hrs/phase (Very Slow)


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:36 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:14 pm
Posts: 73
- on top of *board*: <I>Welcome</I>, kestasjk (1570000 D.)

- & the season NOT in italics.


The Main Links on top:

Board Home Forum Games New Game Settings Log off Help Admin

BECOMES: Board Home Forum -(Help?) Admin Log off

(Games, New Game, Settings, &Help ? ARE in *home*)


** Could you explain this list better ??

** Draw Game, Toggle Pause, Process Now, Process Next, Reprocess Game **

(I'm sure there's a 'process' too many here)

---

NB.: a few more posts have been threaded:

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=305


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:42 am 
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Joined: Thu Jun 18, 2009 8:03 pm
Posts: 3
Wow, this looks great. The only page I think really needs improvement is the home page. It's so full of text, and I agree that I think it could do with less information, so as to be a more convenient "home".

I don't think the HoF and Featured Games in the sidebar is really necessary. What I would like to see is a list of your active games ordered from least time left in phase (which is awaiting your orders) to most time left in phase, displayed with the time left in phase, perhaps in different formats depending on how little time is left, ie. bold or alert red. This could be incorporated somehow into the tab system at the top that we currently have, or make it part of the home page. Either way works.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 11, 2009 3:42 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 10, 2009 1:14 pm
Posts: 73
==> Chris Thx. !;-)

You gotta stash the HoF somewhere,,,
'featured Games'? (you mean viewed)

*Home*

"displayed with the time left in phase, perhaps in different formats
depending on how little time is left, ie. bold or alert red"

- active games ordered by deadline (red or green), or by newst msg.,
OR should there be a player chosen priority system also set-up?


* Settings *

add this option:

=>' What Player Type Are you? ':= (dot choice)
* Musqueteer
* _Unsure_
* Stiletto "" Let others know how you usually play.

(w/ 3 diff. icons?)



- !!! Make bckg. color a tad 'sandier' maybe... ;)
f7A164 ?


** All this thread has been prompted by my original posting **

http://phpdiplomacy.net/index.php?viewthread=452174#452174

-----------------------------------------------------------


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